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AceLeroy
9 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2005 : 22:11:42
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My game has improved over the last 2 years , I am striking the ball better than ever but my putting is keeping me from lowering my scores.
I want to learn to be a good lag putter. If I could just 2 putt every green and eliminate the 3 putts , I would score about 7 strokes better than I do now , which would be a HUGE difference to me.
What is a good method to learn lag putting or how to have good speed when putting?
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bobperry22
USA
369 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 07:55:27
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| I agree. My putting is killing me. My problem is reading the greens. I spend time on my stroke and practice quite a bit. My problem is when I get on the course, it is like a pre-schooler trying to read War and Peace - I can't get the read. I hit a put that seems to have good pace, until I notice that the read is all wrong and I don't even scare the hole. Great evidence of this was when I play in a scramble with a buddy of mine who is a great putter. He gives me the read and I hit everything!! I have tried the "water running off the green" trick, but I just can't seem to get it. HELP!!!!! |
Bob Perry |
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Geo
USA
282 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 10:55:00
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| Oh yeah, reading greens!!! I see the ball breaking left and it breaks hard right instead. I see the ball straight to the hole and it will break big in either direction. When it comes to reading greens, I am clueless in Bothell. |
geo |
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Long and Straight
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 13:26:11
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| WHAT TODD AND TIM TEACH TO LEARN HOW TO READ GREENS IS TO TRY READING YOUR PUTT,THEN PUTT AND IF YOU MISS,READ YOUR PUTT AGAIN TO TRAIN YOURSELF ON HOW MUCH PUTTS BREAK AND THE PROPER SPEED. I WILL PRACTICE APPROX. 30 MINS. BEFORE MY ROUND TO GET THE SPEED OF THE GREENS BEFORE I PLAY. YOU CAN ALSO SEE FEEL THE BREAK UNDER YOUR FEET. I ALSO READ THE PUTT FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOLE. I NOTICED I CAN JUDGE THE SPEED OF A DOWNHILL PUTT BETTER THIS WAY. ALSO OF COURSE A PUTT WILL BE FASTER WITH THE GRAIN VERSES AGAINST IT. |
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BoiseBob
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 16:14:09
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| Outside of just good practise, two things have helped me. In watching a segment on the Golf Channel with Jay Haas, he said to always go to the lowest part of the green to get the best read. Another piece of good advice for playing on courses in hilly terrain is to close you eyes and walk between the hole and the ball. It will help you eliminate the optical illusion of either uphill or downhill that can occur on these hilly courses.(If you suffer an injury doing this exercise I cannot be held responsible.) |
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edmp
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 16:55:52
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BoiseBob,
Interesting advise.Tim,comment please.
Chuck |
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doc9
USA
1364 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 17:13:57
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To any one who is struggling with putting. I mean to the point of 34 or more putts a round. I would suggest giving an honest shot at sidesaddle putting. I mean really , if your hitting 34 putts a round what have you got to lose?
I would look at the website WWW.puttmagic.com first and read the whole page. If you are not convinced by this than maybe you can just forget those pesky last !@!%!%!^& strokes. I honestly use to average 37.4 strokes a round as a short putting conventional putter. I switched to a long putter and improved to 34.3 putts a round. I then switched to sidesaddle putting and I haven't been above 32 putts since! I don't mean every round but over the course of a season tracking putts. If I putt 33 times a round then I hit all the greens.
P.S. Did you notice my paragraphs? I'm coachable,sometimes. Dan |
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AceLeroy
9 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 21:19:47
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My problem is much more with the correct speed than with the correct read.
When attempting to lag , I am OK as far as right to left is concerned. I don't miss too badly either way.
What I am talking about is being able to get the correct speed on the ball where your second putt is less than 3 feet from the hole.
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TGGS
Administrator
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 22:13:06
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Reading Break on Greens - Million Dollar Question (for many pros).
Here are a few comments and suggestions -
1st - There are 3 areas you must always work on when putting - the putter face alignment, path and speed. Hopefully most of you already know this, but everything in putting surrounds these topics. The reason I bring them up is because, many of those who read greens (and do a good job reading a green) have improper fundamentals so their putt never gets on line with what they read - or worse - it gets on line and then hooks or slices off line because of poor fundamentals.
For example - let's say you have a 20 foot putt that when rolled with a stemp meter (or perfect putting device) - breaks 1 foot right to left. If you putt the same putt with improper path or face angle - thus causing a hook or slice in your stroke, it will not break the same. If you putt with a cut, it may break 6 inches or less. If you putt with a hook type stroke, will break more than the foot.
This is not to mention if you toe or heel you putts, putting more side spin on the ball (improper path and or face alignment also).
Those with poor fundamentals read greens poorly because they do not hook or cut the ball the same all the time. Meaning, sometimes they will cause alot of side spin on the ball, sometimes minimal - very hard to read greens consistently and hit the read with this inconsistent putting stroke. Will seem you can't read greens, when you actually are reading them good - the stroke doesn't allow you to hit or stay on your read.
Now - let's assume you have good fundamentals...
Here is some advice for with good fundamentals -
1st. Do you putt with the same type of ball all the time. For example - always putt with Pro V1s or NXT, (same type of ball) - do not change balls when you putt??? This is VERY important as different types of balls react on greens different. Softer balls will hold the green more - skid less as the go off the putter face and will break more. Harder balls skid more and will break less... so if you are using different balls when putting and practicing - very difficult to read consistently.
2nd - Realize that 60% of the break occurs within the last 3 feet of the putt IF you have proper speed (which means the putt would only go about 1 foot past the hole if missed). If you have poor speed, say too hard - that 60% will occur after the hole - hard to read break when you are hitting through the break (poor speed).
Last topic for now - How you practice.
Understand every type of grass (bermuda, bent, Eagle Tiff, Zoysia, etc..) has different characteristics and definitely breaks different. For example - Bermuda has alot of grain and the grain definitely effects the way you read the break, etc..
The best way to work on different greens is through trial and error - you can not short cut this process.
When you practice putting (working on reading break) putt with only 1 ball - read the break of the putt with the 1 ball - putt it. If you miss, put the ball back in the exact same position where you putted from - read again - putt again. Do this until you make it. As you go through the process you are training your eyes to look at the grass to determine the break. If you putt consistantly (good stroke and fundamentals - this is a VERY effective way to teach you how to read break - I have watched the best putter in the world - Tiger Woods do this before every tournament and every round he plays... greens will read different every day... this is how you teach yourself what the greens are doing today). Peform this drill from different directions - down grain, up grain, cross grain, etc..
If need be - walk around the hole - look from different sides of the hole - whatever it takes until you can convince your eyes the break the ball is doing in the putt. Again- putt trial and error over and over again until you can see the break - then focus on speed and line... ultimately without good speed control - reading is ineffective and exceptionally inconsistent.
Point of Reference - Some of the best advice I ever got about putting was from Todd Hamilton - I was practicing with him years ago (when he was at the University of Oklahoma) and I asked him how he tried to control his speed. He told me his goal in putting was if the ball hit the hole (lip, etc..) it should fall. Meaning, he did not believe the ball should lip out. If it lipped out, the putt was too hard.... yes, Todd does die his putts into the hole, but with this philosophy in his putting, he has great speed control.
Good Luck,
Tim
GGA
timg@swinglikemoe.com |
Edited by - TGGS on 11/14/2005 22:16:10 |
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GBroering
USA
76 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2005 : 22:17:47
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The best advice I found came at BYGC that I attended in May.
Tim gave us a putting drill that has given me great results.
Take 2 balls walk 6 steps from hole starting at 12 o'clock, 3, 6 ,9.From each position read the break then putt 2 balls, don't finish the putts. Pick them up and go to next position and putt.
Go around this drill 2 or 3 times remembering the speed and break.
In August at the course I play, twice I did this on all 18 greens.
After this my speed and green reading improved a lot.
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Feeling Moe's GreatnessTM
Gary
1 Day School 2003
1 Day school 2004
2 Day Alumni 2005
BYGC 2005
BYGC 2007 |
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Naitch
172 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 08:02:09
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| The truer my stroke is the better my green reading seems to become. Something that has helped me though is if I see my marked ball's line rolling true, knowing I have made a good stroke, but the ball doesn't behave like I expected it to, I will get behind and down to reread the putt, replaying the ball's path it took. I then try to implant that in my memory bed, seeing OK, I need more/less break there, as well as speed judgement. Befoe long you will have strong mental images of where the ball should go. |
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baldelli
USA
471 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 16:25:42
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| I play at a public course designed by Stanley Thompson, known as the Toronto Terror. His greens are extremely undulated to the point you never want to be above the hole. There is allot of deception built into them to the point where you think the green slopes front to back when it actually is sloped back to front, etc. I always consider the slope of the surrounding terrain when reading these because it gives you an overall view of the true slope. Steve |
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ArnieF
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 16:36:47
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Thanks Tim for the great advice about a really tricky subject.
Scott, do you think this should be moved to the FAQs section so it does not get "buried" over time?
Arnie |
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Scott_R
Administrator
USA
2081 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2005 : 18:34:47
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Arnie,
Good idea. Will do.
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Scott R.
GGA Director of Customer Relations
scottr@swinglikemoe.com |
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Stryker
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2005 : 08:01:33
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I found also that reading greens is easier in low light situations(overcast or lower sun angle). It's suprising what shows up then as opposed to high-noon or sunny conditions.
Curt |
"With a Rebel Yell, They Cried 'MOE, MOE, MOE'!!" |
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TGGS
Administrator
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2005 : 09:02:35
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Very good point Curt -
That is actually one of the reasons I started wearing sun glasses when playing. When you squint alot it is much more difficult to get good depth perception and to see the different color/shades of the green. Sunglasses help me alot in this area.
Tim
GGA
timg@swinglikemoe.com |
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Topic |
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Putting.......
