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Toddg
Administrator
USA
2168 Posts |
 Posted - 09/15/2005 : 10:48:01
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To All,
I get so many questions about my relationship with Natural Golf and what the differences are between what we teach and Natural Golf teaches. Let me address this subject.
First of all, I am a passionate Natural Golf fan if you are talking about Moe Norman's Golf Swing method. Natural Golf, in thier best light, has done a great service to Moe and his likeness. I have and will support the Natural Golf Company that promotes Moe and helps people learn Moes' golf swing because I truly belive that Moe's golf swing is the easiest and best way to play this game. All at Natural Golf understand my position and I have made this clear to them. I have hidden nothing from them as far as how I feel about their responsibiltiy to Moe, his methods and his golf swing.
I have also made it clear that this position leaves me questioning whether the promotion of equipment is the best way to help people learn Moe's golf swing. If a company's focus is on selling clubs, how can they focus on doing ALL that is necessary to help people learn the golf swing? My disagreements with NG have always been regarding the issue of comapany focus on equipment and values regarding the importance of equipment and how it affects the REAL objective of learning Moe Norman's golf swing. This is evident in our golf schools as we spend so much time getting past the barrier of equipment where we should be spending more time about how to swing like moe.
I have had numerous productive meetings with Natural Golf in the past few years and even recently. There is potential in Natural Golf but in my opinion they must start listening to YOU the customers. And from speaking with many of you here in the chat room and in golf schools, it is clear that your views of NG are jaded not because of methodology but because of how you were treated.
For the sake of the many Certified Instructors with whom I am friends and all of those who are as passionate as I am, I hope that the NEW Natural Golf starts doing what is right for helping people learn an easier way to play this game. My hope is that the company focus shifts to teaching and finding the best ways to help you. I believe that a company consumed by that effort can not fail. If this happens, I support their efforts and would look forward to being a part of that effort whatever that might be.
As far as the current differences between Us and Natural Golf? I would say that instructing Moe Norman's golf swing has been an evolution of sorts. As a player and instructor, I learn by playing and instructing. The more I do of each, the better I become at both. As this evolution occurs, the system becomes refined and the processes become a matter of what works and what doesn't work. Certain words are used to describe things while other words are avoided to help avoid confusion.
This evolution causes a gap between the original teachings and what is actually working in the field of instruction. All people are different with different physical charateristics, makeups, sizes, shapes and minds. This leaves a need to become creative in the instrution process. The goal is to shape each person into a better golfer using the tools learned from experience.
Yes, there are differences between what we teach and what NG currently teaches yet the goal is ultimately the same...swing like Moe. The real difference may be in HOW we teach, applying our wisdom and experience to the process of the swing-like-Moe result.
Yes, we teach an overlapping grip...because Moe Overlapped his hands for ALL of his competitive career which spanned over 50 years. Moe became the best in the world with an OVERLAPPING grip...that is why we teach it that way.
I spent hundreds of hours with Moe, kept notes and videos. I also locked myself into video studios for months modeling his movement only to find how simple it really is. This time spent with Moe and in solitude helped me undertand so that I could bring it to you via Videos, schools and instructional forums.
And this is where you find the differences....nothing more than hard earned experience. An experience I am willing to share with Natural Golf if the opportunity ever arises.
Sincerely.
Todd Graves
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Edited by - Toddg on 09/15/2005 11:00:43 |
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pit man
77 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 11:31:11
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| Very well said, Todd. |
Bill
Short, but down the middle most of the time! |
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DrMike
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 11:33:46
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Thanks, Todd,
As always, very erudite, concise, and to the point. I am thankful that Natural Golf introduced me to a simpler, more repeatable swing that is easier on my back, but primarily because it led me to the GGA. "Integrity" is a word tossed about a lot these days, but it aptly applies to you and your brother, and the rest of the staff at the Academy. Thanks for all you've done for me.
Not to scratch yet, but last 8 rounds have all been below 82. Handicap will soon be single digits - a lifetime goal. Thanks again, and best wishes.
Mike |
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edge
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 13:48:14
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Todd,
I also want to thank you for such an eloquent comment. Like DrMike, I owe a lot to Natural Golf for introducing me to the the ONLY way to swing the golf club. I vividly remember watching in awe your swing on "A Lifetime of Better Golf" instructional material. I thought it was the most efficient, athletic, and repeatable swing I had ever seen. That image, coupled with the Four Fundamentals started me on the way to great improvement. However, I got sidetracked by Natural Golf's equipment focus and ended up purchasing 2 different sets of clubs. That has now all passed but I still maintain that the Four Fundamentals modified slightly by your noted teaching experiences produce the desired results..Moe's swing. Can you imagine the union of Natural Golf (without an equipment focus), your seven principles, the training club, and a number of Build Your Game Camps throughout the country?? In my opinion that would be a formula for unbelievable success. Anyway, thanks to the whole staff of GGA for all you do.
Ted Elink-Schuurman
Alumni BYGC, May 05, OKC
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n/a
deleted
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 10:00:54
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Dr. Mike: "Integrity" is an excellent choice of words to represent Tim and Todd. Of course, within the envelope of, "integrity", is the word, "honesty", and I have seen few companies (I am a business consultant) in my career that so consistently evince these wonderful characteristics in personal and corporate behavior, as Tim and Todd.
What I like about the T brothers is that they do not go to external things to get their power, like fancy golf clubs, Lexus automobiles and trophy wives, as three examples. Nor do they tell their students to go to external things to get their power, like the latest and greatest golf clubs. Their power is intrinsic because they live a life of humility, which is a life lived in purpose, and their only purpose is to MASTER TECHNIQUE, the Moe technique, and to transfer that knowledge to their students.
The two of them, Todd and Tim, do this (exhibit "integrity and honesty") so naturally that we should probably be directing this praise onto the efforts of their parents.
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enlightenedbob
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 10:03:45
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| Well done, Todd, unfortunately Jack K remains to me one of the most bitter men I've come across re: you and NG. Why do you think this is? |
you never know what the tide will bring in |
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Toddg
Administrator
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 11:41:42
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I enjoyed my time with Jack Kuykendall. I think he is an interesting and intelligent person. The bitterness comes from choice.
The ultimate goal is to help others. Who has time to be bitter...there is too much to be done. If there is any secret to success it is to help others become successful. Being bitter doesn't serve that purpose or any other for that matter. And bitterness is only damaging the one who is bitter in my opinion.
Todd |
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JimP
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 00:17:50
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Hi Todd,
With the growing interest of Golfers in the single plane siwng
(see Peter Jacobsen)I believe if TGGS could work out a
reconciliation and negotiation with NG, it could have
alot of potential in spreading the word and benefitting all.
NG turned me off when they went to TV stars and ex football players
who supposedly were NGers and forgot their purpose in the name of greed.
I was watching the "Moe on Life" video over the weekend. Moe said he talked with a carpenter about using the hammer in his palm and that the fingers moved but the Palm was better bcause it was dead.
Pls clarify how this relates to the overlapping finger grip we use so I can understand.
thanks and all the best!
Jim |
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Toddg
Administrator
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 09:22:03
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Jim,
Moe used and overlapping grip.
Todd |
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Mojo23
Administrator
Panama
1860 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 09:39:17
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| Hmmm, I am not sure if a reconciliation with NG would be good for Graves Golf. UNfortunately, the NG name seems to be a bit tarnished right now with folks that do not currently practice Single axis golf. Unfortunately, some of the decisions NG made cause them to not appear as a serious method in the eyes of many golfers. IMHO |
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Mike Wilson
Canada
95 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 12:04:58
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Also, single plane is not the same as single axis.....
The interest is being raised though, so GGA can still captilize on the publicity perhaps. |
Mike Wilson
ICQ 126149306
www.wewillallwin.com |
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Toddg
Administrator
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 12:26:33
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There has been numerous attempt at a reconciliation. The stumbling blocks tend to be related to Focus and even Company Mission....
In my opinion, the goal is to help and teach people and to forge a successful company based on that mission. In other words what drives our company is the instruction and the quality of it. I feel we are measured by how many people we help.
Fundamentally, all of you know that if you achieve a swing like Moe, you will hit the ball better. Combine that with the rest of the seven principles and you will become a better player and ultimately enjoy the game more. This achivement is "bigger" than golf and much bigger than just profit margins. I think there is more to it than just golf. It is what is under the surface that I am interested in. What drives all of you to this achievement...what are YOU passionate about.
If our company can help anyone find that passion, improve their golf game and help them enjoy the game and beyond.....well that is why I answer these questions, produce videos and try to expand the awareness that Moe Norman had an easier way...that can be learned.
ANd learning this is an important achievement for the sake of your golf game but that is only a small part of the true nature of the achievement. That is a message that Moe Norman tried to get across.
Todd |
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AlanSF
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 18:05:45
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| We are fortunate to have at least two excellent NG instructors in Northern California -- Bob Epperly and Larry Lee. Both of these men are good teachers, coaches and true professionals. Neither pushes NG equipment at the expense of good teaching. A professional is a professional and I hope that NG stands by them. I know their students and friends will. |
Alan Morris
amorris@hlwcpa.com |
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MDTOM
Canada
1 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2005 : 11:58:09
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Well done Todd. I have enjoyed the development of the swing since attending a Jack Kuykendall weekend in his first years of teaching and even played a round with Larry Olsen when he was considering joining Jack. I have had a great deal of help from a Teacher in Calgary who was a freind of Moe's when he (Marty Demarais) was playing hockey in the American League. Moe wanted him to use his method because Marty was a hockey player!
I would also like to commend you and Tim for the excellent DVD series.
Tom Saunders
Author of "Golf: Lower Your Score With Mental Training" |
Dr Tom |
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Yearsley
Canada
20 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 19:39:39
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Hello All:
New to the board, and can only say that both my wife and I are enjoying great success with the Natural Golf method. Instruction has been superb through a certified NG instructor and yes I have purchased equipment. however, I must say that the set of clubs that I had predated the dinasours.
regards
Glen |
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Mojo23
Administrator
Panama
1860 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 21:08:24
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| Welcome to the board Glen and I am happy that the NG method is working out for both you and your wife. See you on the boards! |
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My Position with Natural Golf
Topic Locked
