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bobperry22
USA
447 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 21:14:54
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| I can't carry a tune (although I love to sing), but sounds like a similar process. You will first need to learn the mechanics of the golf swing - then, eventually, you will need to learn how to play golf. If you take that approach, you will be ahead of many of us who "learned" the hard way. |
Bob Perry |
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TGGS
Administrator
USA
2137 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 21:20:24
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Can not answer this question for you - as I have no idea what it takes to sing.
If I answered, singing seems ridulously easy - who can't do that - you would say I have no idea what I am talking about.... and you'd be correct.
If I answered, learning any new movement, new technique, etc.. is similar - many would not understand.
Here is my answer - if you enjoy the process - nothing is difficult.
If you don't enjoy the process, everything is difficult.
The key to what we do is work with a model that we believe it the simpliest and most repeatable model in golf. And a model that can be done by ANYONE - not just those who are considered "gifted athletes" or have "20 something bodies" - EVERYONE.
Lastly - to be honest, we don't spend our time convincing those to use our method, would take all our time. We are way to busy trying to help those that are working on the method and enjoying the process and getting ALOT better.
Good Luck on your journey,
Tim Graves, PGA
timg@swinglikemoe.com |
Tim Graves, PGA
timg@swinglikemoe.com |
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rustyredcab
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2009 : 13:28:55
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I am a singer. If a pro singer is a +2 handicap or better, I am a scratch singer. I started singing at 25 in a church choir -- not high school or college. I took voice lessons for several years in my early 30's. I got lucky that I had a great voice teacher. She knew that the feelings needed for correct technique are felt differently by different people. So, when she'd suggest something, and I did it wrong, she'd try another way of describing it. Eventually I learned solid technique and enjoyed the success and sang more... solos, opera chorus, more choirs... more success and more fun and more success... Sounds like what we want in golf.
Here are some things that are the same singing and swinging:
1. What you think and feel that you are doing is often not what you are really doing.
2. Under pressure, you will revert to what you are most used to doing and not what is still new and being learned.
3. You will not do your best if you think about your technique while performing. There are more , but that gives you an idea.
Here's a few things that are very different between learning to sing and learning to swing:
1. You can SEE what you are doing when you swing. Video is much more helpful in golf than audio recordings are in singing (I recorded every voice lesson).
2. Proper basic techniques are key to moving forward: grip and setup are like breathing and keeping open.
3. But the biggest difference is that I believe you can only learn so much about singing without some God-given gifts. If you can not hear pitch, I can never help you be better than a 40-handicap singer. You'll have a hard time being much better than your instrument. With golf, I may not have the God-given gifts to be a scratch golfer, but anyone can be a 15 handicap.
BTW, I find the Graves staff and method to be like that first voice teacher. They don't just keep saying the same thing over and over. They try for the same result by acknowledging that we all feel things differently so you'll see lots of discussion about feelings and how to achieve viewable changes.
Russ
P.S. Most prestigious place I've played golf -- Old Course. You wait for lottery results. Most prestigious place I've sang -- Carnegie Hall. You get there by invitation. In that way, golf is easier. |
Build Your Game Camp 2005
2-Day Alumni school 2006 & 2007
5-day Alumni Camp 2008 (The MOEniacs) |
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brasstax
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2009 : 18:29:51
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Russ, nice way of putting things in perspective. Glad we have similar talents. I agree with you about teachers/coaches: talent will get you just so far, but good coaches know how to get more out of you than you think/know you have. I am looking forward to immersing myself into learning the mechanics of Moe's swing, but more importantly learning the art of playing golf (I want that feeling of greatness that you guys have).
Thanks again, Jeff |
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garb
130 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2009 : 10:08:13
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Well, back to the drawing board. I've been working with the Moe swing setup for the past month, and faithfully working with my newly constructed PVC setup. Thought I was making good progress, swing felt good anyway. Yesterday, I was playing golf with my normal group, and decided to use my new Moe swing setup on the first tee. Result: I duck hooked the ball out of bounds. Wow, what in the world did I do wrong? Discouraged after this shot, I reverted to my CG setup and swing and played the remainder of the round.
I know I probably took the new swing to the course too soon, but I was just very anxious to see how it would work. I'm not blaming the results on the Moe swing -- just trying to figure what in the world happened to me on that first drive. Any and all comments would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I'll continue working on my "living room" swing and the PVC drills.
Allen |
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rustyredcab
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 10:51:05
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Allen,
Impossible to know what went wrong with seeing the swing. This is my "big miss" of late. An out-of-the-blue duck hook. I have not seen mine on video since it is seemingly random. I THINK I may be trying to guide the ball so much that I create a nearly arm-only swing that really becomes an over-the-top double cross. I think I restrict by lower-body turn back and then turn coming through and may enen cast the club a bit... but that is just a guess. I often correct the problem on the next tee by taking a backswing with a good turn and hitting the ball hard while aiming a bit right. I often go a little right on that next swing, but the duck hook is gone until I hit that same hole again the next week.
The Graves staff are the ones to answer this but, I'd suggest you add some range work to your living room work and create some confidence before bringing the swing to the course. Get yourself on video if you can and see what is happening with your legs/knees/hips. And then, when you bring the new swing to the course, burn the ships in the harbor. No reverting back to your old swing when things don't work out. Move forward because there is no going back.
Good Luck,
Russ |
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garb
130 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 14:16:39
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Thanks Russ -- the weather is really great here in Northern AZ, so I'm scheduling a couple of range sessions next week in place of my weekly on course game. I'm not setup yet with video, but hope to be soon. I've worked on and off for quite awhile with the Moe swing. I've just got to let the old stuff go, and work only with Moe (as you suggested in your post.) Thanks again for your answer to my frustrated outcry --
Allen |
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brasstax
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 17:58:17
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Allen, I appreciate your thought of "letting the old stuff go." Man, that is so hard when it is seemingly ingrained so deep in our psyches. It's like we have been brain washed to the point of no return. What I am liking best about Moe's swing is that I don't sway - I can stay centered and balanced, and I have a greater likelihood of solid contact. It's hard for me, though, too. And I have pull-hooked some shots as well. But, man, when I do connect on a pure shot, it's a thing of bueaty. All you guys have been supportive of me. Let's do this together!!
Jeff |
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Vinnie
Canada
185 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 11:43:58
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Garb
I can guarantee you that every single GGA Alum that reads your post will shake his head and know that you are doomed to failure. Let me explain. The biggest hurdle we all face at EACH AND EVERY CAMP,SCHOOL,LESSON is falling back on old,bad habits. And hear you are going back and forth between methods. Not going to work, never has, never will. This method is a better way to good golf, but it is still golf, in my opinion the hardest game in the world, and it requires TOTAL commitment to the method. Dabbling is for penny stocks. Sorry if I sound a little harsh, but we have all done this, got the T-Shirt and it ain't gonna happen. I started with these guys as a 20+ and now play to a 5, but it required total commitment to the plan, and a little bit of work. Enjoy the journey. |
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garb
130 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 09:09:11
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Vinnie -- thanks for your reply. I don't take your comments as harsh. I know that switching back and forth between systems is not the thing to do. I've been slow to commit to GGA for a number of reasons, the biggest reason is that I'm kinda on my own learning the GGA basics. At this point, I cannot afford to attend a school and am counting on the Graves videos to get the basics. I plan on working a little harder with the swing during the winter months and playing less golf. When I'm on the golf course and things go wrong, I tend to switch back to what I've engrained over the years just to play without embarassing myself. This has got to stop --- less golf and more work on changing is the answer. This new approach for me will begin tomorrow -- I've cancelled my regular Saturday golf outing and will spend time on the driving range. Wish me luck, and again, thanks for your encouragement.
Allen |
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rustyredcab
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 11:09:46
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Allen,
Wherever you live, you're having better weather than Chicago. I think I've played my last round of the season.
As the posts here urge you, get a video camera and tape your swing. Even if you just review it yourself, you'll see what is happening and what to work on. I don't know if you pre-pay your golf or not. If you pay as you go, one or two weeks greens fees will pay for a $90 Flip camera on eBay.
Next comment is that you need not stop golfing on a course while learning, you just need to be willing to score amazingly bad. At my first school, I learned that I had not been releasing the club at all. I would clear to the left and hold on to get the ball to go straight. At school, I learned proper movement and release. I did it correctly some times but not most times. I had a lot to work on. The day after returning from school I had a big charity event and I was hosting a 4-some so I could not bow out. I knew that I was in no condition to take my new swing to a course. I could try and revert to my old swing or just try the new one and live with the results. I chose the later. I hit some nice shots. My misses are the stuff of folk lore. If I got the body position stuff right and did not release, I would block the ball 200 yards right. I hit one ball OB over another fairway. It is safe to say no one had ever done that on that hole. If I got the release correct but had my old body position, I'd hook the ball so far left it was amazing. My alternate shot partner could not believe what was happening. "Just swing your old way." he begged. I was committed to my new swing. So, either stay off the course or bring a lot of betting money and a good temperament. You choose. BTW, the next year my 4-some won that event and my partners were thrilled to have me on the team (again I was the host so what were they going to say.)
Good luck and know that we -- perhaps unlike your playing partners of the next few weeks -- know that we are behind you.
Russ |
Edited by - rustyredcab on 10/23/2009 11:13:37 |
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garb
130 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 11:27:31
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I've read and posted on a lot of golf forums in the past, and never have I experienced the level of help and suggestions that I've gotten here in the past couple of weeks. All you guys that have answered my pleas for help have taken time to listen to me and give very helpful advise. I really appreciate your patience.
As I mentioned in my last post, I plan on working on the GGA system the next couple of weeks on the driving range rather than on a golf course. This will give me a chance to really think about the swing elements, without concentrating on my score.
A question about video. I have a very good digital camera (new) that will take about 30 minutes of video. Do you think this camera could be used as a substitute for a video camera, at least until I can get set up with the real thing?
Thanks again for your post and helpful hints.
Allen |
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rustyredcab
USA
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 13:50:45
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I'd say 30 minutes digital is great -- that's what I have: a Flip Ultra 30 minutes. You need not keep every swing on the camera. You can download swings to a computer and save what you wish on your computer. Pick up a cheap tripod if you don't have one and you and start seeing what you look like.
Russ |
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garb
130 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 15:17:55
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Thanks Russ. I have a tripod, so I'm all set. I'll get setup with my camera and give it a try.
Allen |
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garb
130 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 19:19:04
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By the way Russ, I live in Prescott, AZ. The altitude here is 5280 feet so we do get some cold weather and snow. The golf courses stay open all winter and we can play here 80 to 90 percent of the winter days, depending on the weather. Last year we had more than usual cold windy days, so my golf was limited somewhat. I'm hoping for a light winter this year, but who knows what will happen. I live just 100 miles north of the Phoenix area, so I can go down there occasionally for golf.
Here's hoping the Chicago winters are mild, and you can get in some play.
Allen |
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Oct Etip Update - Cutting Handicap in 1/2....
