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Leo
Canada
586 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2009 : 19:33:23
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I haven't been able to play golf all summer and have spent time looking at clubs planning for next year. I always had a slower swing speed and as I become more experienced in life speed is not increasing (although time does seem to pass more quickly). Because of that I have concentrated on looking at game improvement irons. The club manufacturers are spending a lot of marketing money on game improvement. They are all offering various hybrid sets with stronger lofts. In general I am not fond of the appearance at address of these iron-hybrids. They look clunky and awkward. Thick top lines, very wide at the bottom (on many you can see the back of the iron at address) and a lot of offset. The offset is what I find most offensive visually.
I have to ask myself where the line between measurable performance increase and marketing gets crossed. I need help from the clubs to compensate for my lower swing speed but I do not like the looks of the "super ultra game improvement" designs.
1. What design aspects of game improvement irons give real value in terms of game improvement and what is marketing that just sells clubs?
2. GGA recommends clubs not have too much offset. How much is too much?
3. What aspects of iron design gives the best bang for your buck (in this case the buck is the variation from 'classic' club designs)?
4. If you value the 'ego' aspect of clubs but also wanted some game improvement what would you not compromise on in design features?
5. Lofts of clubs for a given club number vary a lot between manufacturers. It is not something I normally consider. Should I?
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Hoping for success without hard work is like trying to harvest without planting. |
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rustyredcab
USA
641 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 14:54:27
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I thought Game Improvement clubs have bigger sweat spots. This allows people to miss the center of the club face and still hit a good shot. They often have a lower mass which helps get the ball up in the air with slower swing speeds -- sort of. They may also have more offset to help many people get the club square.
Other that a higher launch, do Game Improvement clubs help slower swing speeds? I did not think they did. I thought that was a separate issue best managed with shaft changes which can also help get the launch you want.
I'm not talking down GI clubs, I just want to know if slower swing speeds mean one should play them. I play what are consider GI irons (not Super Game Improvement) -- Callaway Fusions which are I think the second generation of 3-4 years ago. I still need the forgiveness of a big sweat spot. I re-shafted from original graphite to steel.
Russ |
Build Your Game Camp 2005
2-Day Alumni school 2006 & 2007
5-day Alumni Camp 2008 (The MOEniacs) |
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Leo
Canada
586 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2009 : 19:17:00
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The response has been overwhelming .
Let me ask another way.
Take Ping irons as an example. I can get the G15 irons or the i15 irons. They are both cavity back but the G15's are larger, have a wider sole and have more offset.
My set makeup is driver, 3W, 5W, 3,4,5 hybrid and 6-LW irons. I use graphite shafts in all my clubs except for GW, SW and LW which are steel shafts.
If I played from 6-W with graphite shafts in each set will I.....
hit the G15 irons farther than the i15's?
hit the G15 irons higher than the i15's?
hit the G15 irons straighter than the i15's?
have more 'mi****s' with the i15's?
have more spin with the G15's?
If I played 10 rounds on the same holes with each set, in your opinion, would the average score be lower with the G15's?
All feedback is welcome.
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Hoping for success without hard work is like trying to harvest without planting. |
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rustyredcab
USA
641 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2009 : 09:10:36
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Am I the only guy who is trying to help you? Here's my guesses.
Your questions:
If I played from 6-W with graphite shafts in each set will I.....
hit the G15 irons farther than the i15's?
ON OFF-SWEAT SOPT HITS - YES. SOLID HITS - MAYBE
hit the G15 irons higher than the i15's?
YES YOU SHOULD GET THE BALL UP FASTER BY DESIGN.
hit the G15 irons straighter than the i15's?
YES
have more 'mi****s' with the i15's?
SWEAT-SPOT IS SMALLER SO, FOR MOST OF US, YES.
have more spin with the G15's?
LESS SIDE SPIN. NOT SURE ABOUT BACKSPIN
If I played 10 rounds on the same holes with each set, in your opinion, would the average score be lower with the G15's?
IF YOU HIT THE FACE WHERE YOU INTEND, YOU'LL HIT BOTH CLUBS WELL AND THE i15's WILL BE MORE CONSISTENT AND PREDICTABLE. IF YOU LIKE TO WORK THE BALL LEFT AND RIGHT, IT SHOULD BE EASIER WITH THE i15's. IF YOU PLAY THE SAME HOLES 20 TIMES, YOU SHOULD GET PRETTY GOOD AT THOSE HOLES. :)
I advise you to hit them both and choose the set that feels the best. You should like the way they look, feel in you hands, and perform. If hitting does not make it clear, I'd trust Tim's advise (I am happy that I did.) I plan to play my game improvement set until I hit the face where I want almost every time. Then I'll go for a set with more feel (forged?). I think I'm years away from having enough command of my swing to play clubs with a smaller sweat spot.
Anyone else have a thought for Leo?
Russ |
Edited by - rustyredcab on 11/02/2009 09:22:23 |
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TGGS
Administrator
USA
2142 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 09:03:34
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A lot of questions.... and much could go on and on and on... here are a few answers...
1. What design aspects of game improvement irons give real value in terms of game improvement and what is marketing that just sells clubs?
- Size of sweet spot - most larger headed clubs have a larger sweet spot.
- Width of sole. The wider the sole, the easier to get the ball up and more forgiving. If you don't take a divot - you need a wider sole club.
- Cavity back - 90%+ of clubs are now cavity back - even most professionals are playing some type of cavity back club - much more forgiving across the entire face of the iron.
2. GGA recommends clubs not have too much offset. How much is too much?
- Offset to help get the ball up is fine. Offset that aids in a slice is not. Standard offset is good - anything added to correct a slice, etc.. is not recommended.
3. What aspects of iron design gives the best bang for your buck (in this case the buck is the variation from 'classic' club designs)?
Listed above...
- Wider sole
- Cavity back
- Graphite shafting for most...
4. If you value the 'ego' aspect of clubs but also wanted some game improvement what would you not compromise on in design features?
Give up the ego on clubs....... You would be shocked if you looked in a lot of touring pros bags.... get something that is forgiving and easy to hit and fits your game.
5. Lofts of clubs for a given club number vary a lot between manufacturers. It is not something I normally consider. Should I?
As you change clubs, and lofts are different you will get use to the distance you hit the clubs pretty quick. Most clubs are pretty close now.... and most golfers don't use enough loft when needed... in other words, much easier to hit a club with the appropriate loft than having to "create" loft...
Tim
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Tim Graves, PGA
timg@swinglikemoe.com |
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jaavenor
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 11:45:22
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| Interesting - I rarely make a divot, instead brushing the grass - what make of clubs best fit "winder sole, cavity back, etc." I continue playing with my Adams A3's purchased from you in 2006. I like the irons - but I've replaced the hybrids with Callaway Devils. Thank you. |
3 Day School Nov. 2005
2 Day Alum School Feb. 2008
3 Day Short Game School March 2009 |
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TGGS
Administrator
USA
2142 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 13:57:54
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Of the similar clubs out there now - the Adams A7 are set up for those taking mid to a lot of divot, the A7 OS are set up for those that take little or no divot.
Tim |
Tim Graves, PGA
timg@swinglikemoe.com |
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jaavenor
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 10:50:27
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| Thanks Tim - what is your opinion of the Callaway Fusion wide sole irons vs. Adams A7OS? Thanks |
3 Day School Nov. 2005
2 Day Alum School Feb. 2008
3 Day Short Game School March 2009 |
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Game improvement or marketing?
